In this episode I have the honor of hosting Ty Hervey who grew up in a Cowboy Church as a pastor’s son. He was saved at the age of 13, and then at 17 years old he surrendered his life to ministry and has been serving in a pastoral role ever since. Ty is also the host of the Venture Tabernacle podcast, which is a very rich and entertaining podcast designed to help us view the world through the objective lens of the Bible. Don’t miss out on this fantastic conversation!

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References to Bible Verses:

Romans 8:28

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Cover Image & Music from Pixabay

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Transcript

Jason: Welcome back listeners. And thank you for joining me on this special guest interview episode. I have the honor of hosting Ty Hervey, who grew up as a cowboy church pastor's son. He was saved at the age of 13. Then at 17 years old, he surrendered his life to ministry and has been serving in a pastor role ever since.

Ty is the host of the Venture Tabernacle podcast. Which is a very rich and entertaining podcast designed to help us view the world through the objective lens of the Bible. I stole some of his wording there. You can find the podcast at https://venturetabernacle.com. He has a Facebook and Twitter page where you can follow him.

Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it now. All these links are in the show notes. I highly recommend you check him out. He's also got one of the best podcast voice I think I've heard in a long time. So let me stop talking about him and we'll start talking to him.

Jason: So Ty, welcome to the Mind Ministry Mission Podcast. And thank you so much for being here.

Ty: You bet, man. Thank you for having me on. And, and thanks for the kind words. You, you really talked me up. So I guess now we got to perform, right?

Jason: Yeah, you're, you're, you're on point now, you're on notice.

Ty: Yeah. All right.

Jason: I crammed as much as I could about you into the intro. But is there anything else you want the listeners to know before we really get rolling here?

Ty: Yeah, I mean I think you, you covered most of the high points, you know, the, the only thing that I kind of like to add as a caveat is I sound like this really great professional ministry guy, but I'm just figuring it out just like everybody else. So, you know, that that's just me I'm not somebody special. I've been used by God to do some pretty amazing things and I'm just glad to be a part of what he's doing to be frank.

Jason: That's amazing. I think when, when it all comes down to it, we're all just doing God's work and when we think we're not, that's when we're stepping out of line. So I think that's good for all of us. I mentioned your podcast, Venture Tabernacle, which I think is a very clever name. I have followed you on Spotify. I've been listening to it. I think it's great. But would you, you want to tell us any more about that before we roll into this?

Ty: Yeah, sure. So the podcast, you know, has been a passion project of mine for a little bit. And it is, like you said, you stole my words. It is designed to help people view the world through the objective lens of the Bible. And my heart in that is, you know, I'm, I'm a, I'm a pastor. I'm a minister at churches. And so I see people on Sundays and Wednesdays, and I want those conversations to continue. Throughout the week where we get into this mindset where we think biblically about everything that we do, not just on Sundays and Wednesdays, but every day of the week. So that's what it's all about right now.

That looks like we're doing the Sunday sermon series where we're going through the gospel according to Mark verse by verse in a brief format. And I keep it brief on purpose because I know some people love long podcast and I personally, I do as well, but. I also know some people have 5 10 minutes to hear something about the Word of God. And so we try to keep those under 15 minutes and cover a piece of that scripture at a time. And I've really been enjoying it. I've had great feedback and it's opened a lot of doors and yeah, it's a highlight of my week to get to do that stuff.

Jason: That's great. You know, this is kind of one of my highlights that, I do my podcast, but being able to reach out and, and meet people, it's, it's fantastic.

Ty: Absolutely.

Jason: When you sent it in the guest interest form, you noted that your favorite Bible verse was Romans 8: 28. I think it's, "And we know in all good things, God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Do you mind telling me why that stands out to you?

Ty: Absolutely. That's that's been a verse that I have, you know, kind of clung to in some harder times of my life. And everyone I understand goes through difficult things. But when a crisis has arrived, it's been a constant reminder for me that God is sovereign and he understands what's going on in my life. In fact, he's not surprised by any of it. Despite where I've made mistakes on my own and all those things, even where I've messed things up, where terrible things have happened in my life and to me, I can have confidence because of God's word that God is planning something bigger and better. And it may not look like what I think it should look like.

So that verse for me has just been kind of a central focus to remind me God is good. And he's always gonna take care of me. He always has. And he always will.

Jason: That's great. I love it. All right. I'm just going to say this again. You have a great podcast voice. I'm a little jealous but let's jump into this. So

Ty: But thank you. Thank you.

Jason: I don't recall if this came up when we met for the first time, but I grew up on a horse ranch. You know, we had horses, a mammoth, Jack mules, livestock like chicken, pigs, all that stuff.

I literally grew up on horseback. I have pictures of me as a baby sitting on my mom's lap on a saddle. Because of that, I think the best place to start is let's talk about this cowboy church movement. So what. makes this so amazing?

Ty: Oh, man. You know, and I'm glad you kind of give a little bit of your background because it's so funny who you run into and how similar backgrounds can be. Cause that was my background. I grew up on a ranch. My dad grew up training horses and, and on a very big ranch and much bigger than the one that we had when I was growing up.

And so Cowboy Church is birthed out of that mindset. That there is a demographic. There's a people group in America that is not going to be reached by the traditional church movement. And it's not even necessarily that the traditional church movement has a fault or there's something wrong with them.

It's just that these people don't feel comfortable. Going to a fancy building where there's going to be a lot of rules and regulations and things like that. So cowboy church was birthed to reach that group of people with the gospel. And it's very much a Baptist way organization. As far as doctrine and theology goes, we might as well be a Baptist church with a cowboy hat on is kind of how I described it.

But the heart is. Very evangelistic, very much trying to reach a demographic that is for lack of better words, been left behind by the mainstream church today. And I grew up in that for context, I was in a Baptist church from about zero to eight, and then when I was seven or eight, my dad actually started a cowboy church over in Texarkana, Arkansas.

Jason: Oh, that sounds great. Are there any misconceptions that you struggle with, with the cowboy church?

Ty: Yeah, there's, there's quite a few because, you know when you hear the word cowboy church, it's not exactly if you didn't grow up in it, it's, it's novel to you. It's very strange and odd and your mind just goes to Western movies and things like that. And interestingly enough, you know, I went to Dallas Theological Seminary and, I was the only person there that really knew anything about Cowboy Church. There was a few other people. So saying the only person is an exaggeration, but there, there might have been five people on that whole campus that even knew what Cowboy Church was before they talked to me. And so the misconceptions just flying off the wall, you know, the conversations we had, one of the big ones that I'll always love to debunk is Cowboy Church is not just for cowboys.

Really, anyone is welcome. I mean, we've got people that come to our church every Sunday that wear flip flops and shorts and a t shirt and, you know, they get the same handshake that everybody else gets personally, you know, I wear my Crocs a lot of time to church and I do get poked fun at for that instead of boots but I do it, you know, just to keep the mood and the atmosphere light and so it's not just for Cowboys.

It's really, again, it's to reach a segment of people that don't feel comfortable. In a traditional church. So if you're a country person, if you don't like, you know, fancy buildings and a bunch of things like that, then chances are, you might fit in pretty well to cowboy church and you don't even have to be super country. We've got people who have nothing to do with the Western heritage lifestyle that come every week. So that's probably the biggest misconception that we have.

And, and the other ones are just, you know, kind of small stuff, just goofy stuff. Whatever you picture in your head, whatever Western movie comes into your mind is, as far as looks is probably pretty accurate about what our buildings look like. But as far as how church is, it's probably a little bit different than what you're imagining.

Jason: Fair enough. And you, you did mention you reached the unchurched population and I noticed you didn't say that they were unbelievers. So, it sounds like these are just people who. Have no church home or like you said, just don't feel comfortable in a, in a big, big city church, if you will.

Ty: Right. And it's, it's probably, I would say 50/50, 50 percent of people who. may be believers, but don't have a church home. And, they, they've gone to a Baptist church their whole life and they're, strong Christians. But then they find out Cowboy Church exists and they go, wow, this is so much more comfortable for me than what I've done my whole life.

And then the other half is just genuinely unreached unbelievers, non believers that we bring in. And one of the reasons I love Cowboy Church so much is because we do reach a segment of people. Cowboy Church isn't a denomination per se. It's technically non denominational, but we'll use that language so that it makes sense.

I don't know of any other denomination that baptizes as many adult people as Cowboy Church does. I mean, that's, that's part of their bread and butter. You know, usually people in churches are being baptized as children. They're coming to know the Lord at a young age. Whereas we're bringing people in and it's not uncommon to see someone who's 60, 70 years old getting baptized because they've, you know, they've never been to church in their life.

And they said, you know what? I'll just give this stupid cowboy church thing a try. And, and they walk in and they feel welcomed and they hear the gospel presented and they respond to it. And then we baptize them. And it's, it's amazing. What, what I have seen the Lord do through the movement.

Jason: That sounds really cool.

Ty: It is, and it's I'm biased, you know, obviously, because I grew up in it most of my life, but I'm very partial and have a huge heart for the Cowboy Church movement.

Jason: So when, when I think about it, I mean, the Western movie aside, when I think about it, I just, I think of this rich, unique culture, but if you could help me out and just walk me through a day or service at your church,

Ty: Well, sure, sure. So, everything about our Sunday morning is to make lost people feel welcome. It's all about that to any degree. That we don't compromise on the gospel. So we draw the line there. But up to that, we were willing to do whatever it takes to make a lost person comfortable.

So it starts out. Everybody's kind of mingling around. We'll have donuts and coffee out in the foyer and we'll have greeters at the door. People who are shaking your hand and saying, hey, we're glad you're here. And we've tried to build a culture and and this is typical for most cowboy churches to have a culture of inviting an invitation where if you see someone at the church that you don't know that you're going to walk up to him and shake their hand and say, Hey, my name is Ty. What's your name? How did you end up here? And Creating a bridge for someone who's uncomfortable walking into a place, making sure that they at least have someone who introduced themselves to them and if they realize that they're new, they're going to point them out and be like, hey, let me give you the grand tour, which the grand tour for us consists of about 30 seconds.

And here's the sanctuary. Here's the restrooms. Here's the doughnuts, the coffee. If you need anything, let me know. Right? They have yeah. Yeah, all the all the important things, of course, and so from there, we'll start off with an instrumental song to let everybody know that we're about to get started when that song is over, we'll have someone come up onto the stage and give announcements just like you would expect to see at any church, but that announcements are I wouldn't say they're, they're not well put together, but they're kind of put together with an improv mindset that it's supposed to be a little bit fun, a little bit goofy. And we're balancing and towing the line between informing the people of our church what's going on and also making people feel welcome. So we'll crack some jokes up there on the stage. It's a very light hearted attitude.

And at the end of the announcements, the pastor actually comes up and welcomes the guest. If there's anybody who is there who hasn't been there before, we have a gift that we try to give away. Right now it's a booklet of cowboy sayings and scriptures that our pastor wrote and so we give that we make sure we we want to say thank you to visitors for coming because we know they don't have to be there and especially we're just trying to get again. Make lost people feel welcome and comfortable in the church, and even to the point that the pastor and whoever's giving announcements might even pick at each other a little bit and just have some banter back and forth. And the pastor will tell a joke as part of his welcome and part of his announcing again, to take the person who's on edge and relieve the tension a little bit for them. Let them know that this is a fun place where you can worship the Lord and it's a safe place.

After the announcements are over, we'll go into what we call meet and greet or the handshake howdy do as our band leader loves to call it. It's pretty comical. And in that time, it's just like any other meet and greet that you would expect. But we're very intentional about our members and the people who are regular attenders of the church. Hey, go shake people's hand, walk around. And if you see people who are new again, introduce yourself, say hi, shake their hand and tell them you're glad you're there. And everything is all centered around making sure these people feel welcome.

And so after meet and greet is over, we go into our time of worship, which is very different than you would see in just about any other church because it's country, Western bluegrass gospel type music. There's some hymns mixed in there. So there's some new country songs that have been remixed with Christian lyrics in there. And and they run the balance between worship and and country music and entertainment in a way that is again. Designed to make anyone who likes to listen to country music going down the road on their radio, on their car, their truck. If you like that, then you're going to feel at home while we worship.

And then after worship, the pastor will come up and give about a 30 minute sermon. Usually it's not any longer than that. It's always gospel focused. It's always practically minded. Trying to give people application that they can use in their lives. And it always ends with a call to salvation. That is a non negotiable for us because we always want to assume that there's lost people in our church because there there's lost people in every church, at least we hope there is.

And and so there's a gospel presentation. And then instead of an altar call for us, it is a, we believe that's a private and personal decision. We asked them to pray that prayer themselves. But if they prayed to receive Christ that day, we ask them to fill out a connect card. We call it our green sheet because it's green and yeah, creative naming, isn't it?

And so we ask him to fill that out and drop that in the offering box for us, which, by the way, we don't pass the plate at cowboy church. That's one of the things that we do intentionally not to make unchurched people feel uncomfortable because that's an awkward moment whenever a plate passes by you and you don't know what you're supposed to be doing, or you feel like you're obligated to tithe when you're not even a Christian, right?

And so we have offering boxes in the back in the foyer where if someone does want to tithe, and we do teach that you should tithe 10 percent just like the Bible says if they want to tithe, you can do that yourself, put that in there. And that's also where people put the green sheets. And then at the very end of the service, we have one liturgy, which is actually really uncommon for cowboy church because liturgy is kind of like a cuss word in cowboy church. If people even know what that word means. But it's, it's for us, we sing a final closing hymn. It's he is Lord. And it's just a reminder for us as we get ready to go back out into the world, that we came here to worship Jesus Christ, our Lord. And and we're taking that back with us when we go out into the world and then service is over, we close out and we encourage people to hang out as long as they want to fellowship and, and talk with one another.

People kind of mingle and mix around until they all filter their way out of the church. And for us, we have two services. So we, you know, one ends and we start another one in about 30 minutes and that's, that's cowboy church for us. And that's mostly typical of what cowboy church is going to look like at any church that you go to that's affiliated with the American Fellowship of Cowboy Churches, which is the overarching parent organization of Cowboy Church is similar to, you know, what the Southern Baptist Association would be for a Baptist church.

Jason: Okay. No, it sounds interesting. It makes me want to go.

Ty: And it's fun. It's, it's designed to be fun, laid back without compromising on the gospel. And we want it to, you know, we want it to be something that people look forward to.

Jason: Yeah, absolutely. We've talked about, you know, some of the, the misconceptions are, are there any challenges that the cowboy church faces from, either secular or even other Christian organizations?

Ty: Well, certainly You know, one of the challenges is that it's a very misunderstood organization just because there's not a ton of literature. In fact, the AFCC is a very young organization. As far as, church movements go, I don't know exactly how old it is, but it's only, you know, 20 to 30 years old is how old this is.

So it's not like, all the other denominations that have hundreds of years of history. You know, when you say Baptist, people know what you're talking about when you say Presbyterian, people know what you're talking about. So there's that. One of the bigger challenges that most cowboy churches face, and it's a byproduct of. Who are target demographic is is that our media is typically pretty terrible. It's hard for a cowboy church to do media well. There are lots of cowboy churches that do media well, but it's they didn't come by naturally. They had to really work at it and and they've kind of worked at honing that craft over the years.

So, media and technology is a big hassle as far as cowboy churches go and and presenting The organization in a way that is appealing to younger people, because like I said, we baptize a lot of adults and it's very easy for us to attract adults into the church, but it's not as easy to attract young people.

And I think a lot of that is just generational demographics. You know, when you start talking about Gen Z and even millennials and of course, Gen Alpha, the amount of cowboys and country people. That number is shrinking. And I don't know that for a fact, but I just know that from what I see from generation to generation.

When I look at the baby boomer generation, there's a lot more cowboys or country or cowboy related people in that generation than there is in Gen Z and Gen Alpha that I minister to on a regular basis. So it's not necessarily Something that appeals as much to them. So that's something that AFCC as an organization is looking at and studying, how do we move into the future? Because we know what got us here is not necessarily what's going to get us 20 more years down the road.

Jason: Yeah, I think people miss or maybe not miss, they don't put enough pressure on the idea of intergenerational Christian relationships. And I think you see that a lot in churches, you know, and I'm not going to say a lot, but I have seen that in churches where it's, you know, you have this generation gap where the older ones are, you know, listen to me, do what I say, I'm teaching you and the younger ones are rebelling against that because nobody's bothering to talk to them.

Ty: Right. And that's, and that's something I struggle with personally, you know, I'm the youth pastor at our church and I'm also an associate pastor, so. I don't just hang out with the teenagers. I've got a lot of responsibilities outside of that. And you hear that, that statement that you just made a lot, you know, I just wish these kids would listen to what I had to say.

And you hear people complain about the, the generation and how things are going. But, I like to challenge people who are in that mindset. I say, okay. But what have you done to pour into that generation? Because if you're not doing something about it, you don't get to complain about it. And that's where a lot of people make the mistake is they want to whine and complain about, oh, this generation's not like what ours was.

Okay, well, come work with the teenagers and teach them how to be respectful. Teach them how to be a man of God and to stand on your faith and teach them the word of God. After you've done that, and if they're still disrespectful, we'll talk about that. Right. But it is very important. I agree with you to have this intermingling of generations because that's how discipleship happens. And that's how it's supposed to happen. And when you miss that is when generations grow up without that benefit and largely they turn away from the Lord. And it's an unfortunate reality, but it's the truth.

So one of the things we do to combat that personally, in our youth ministry Is we've got several of the volunteers who are working with our youth every Wednesday who are in their 60s and they're very wise, older men, and they also have a heart for these teenagers because someone sat down with them and said, Hey, this generation needs help.

Just like every generation that came before it, by the way. There's not anything unique about these new generations. Every one of us needed help from the generations before us, but these guys, they, they taken an interest in the youth and they bring a perspective and a level of wisdom that I'm personally, frankly, not able to provide because I'm 26 and I've been in ministry a lot and I've got a lot of life experience.

But I don't have as much life experience as someone who's 66. There's, there's no way for me to even say that. And so I really appreciate those guys who step up and are making a difference with our youth and helping those kids grow up with outside influence besides just their age group.

Jason: Yeah. And the trick is, is that at that age of the youth, the teenagers, the even preteens, they don't even know that they need that wisdom. So you got to break through that barrier and relate to them. And sometimes, you know, maybe just ask them what they think about something, ask them what they feel about certain scripture, you know, because I've worked with the fourth, fifth grade and our church a couple of times.

And I think that's one of the most fascinating conversations is, is to engage them because you're going to find out that these are, these are kids. that are transitioning to adults. So, you know, there's a one foot in childhood, one foot in adulthood, and they don't know which way to go. And, you know, sometimes you just gotta, you gotta listen.

Ty: Yeah. And that relationship goes so far with teenagers and preteens. If they don't trust you, they don't think that you care about them. They're going to write you off and they're not going to accept what you have to say. But on the inverse of that is if you establish trust, if you prove to them that you care about them and that you love them and you don't have, you know, just some agenda that you're trying to push they will buy in heart and soul and they will learn from you and they will grow in amazing ways.

And that's, you know, that's one of the big keys for youth ministries. They don't care how much, you know, until they know how much you care. Yes.

Jason: Yeah, that's a good way to put it. And this kind of transitions to another topic I wanted to touch on, which is discipleship. I love seeing somebody giving themselves to Christ, you know, they, they say the sinner's prayer or, ask Jesus to come into the life or whatever it looks like, but, I'm sure you'll agree, that's just the beginning, you know, that's the first step.

And discipleship is so important and growing up as a pastor son, like how has that shaped your approach to discipleship?

Ty: Well, tremendously, and even I would say a lot more than I realized until really only a few years ago. So my history, I grew up as a pastor's son, and I know that's not always great for everyone, but for me, that was a wonderful experience. I was at church anytime the doors were open, and it instilled in me just this love for the Bible and for the gospel that has stayed with me all of my life.

And as far as discipleship goes, when I was 17, my dad sat down with me and said, I'm going to disciple you. And of course, you know, I was like, okay whatever this and the interesting relationship is, you know, I went into ministry when I was 17 and I was my dad's youth pastor. My dad was senior pastor. I was the youth pastor. So it's kind of like, I can't say no because my senior pastor is saying he wants to do something. That's, you know, we say yes, sir. And so he discipled me and it was a wonderful thing. And when I say discipleship, I'm talking about, you know, one on one or one on a very small group of people where we're transferring the wisdom, knowledge, and experience that God has given one generation to the next generation.

You know, my dad was discipled by three or four or a dozen or more men who were in ministry who are older than him and poured into him when he started in the ministry. And he's passing all those things that have been given to him and entrusted to him down to me to entrust to people down the line as well.

And so I didn't realize how important that was until I don't know, it was probably. Three years ago now, when I went to a disciple making summit at DTS with John Tolson, who was putting it on and he, you know, just laid out, this is God's plan to change the world is one on one discipleship. That's what he did with the 12 disciples.

And those guys went out and changed the entire world and established the church that we're a part of today. And and so I, I had that aha moment at the disciple making summit. Oh my goodness. I have been given so, so much because my dad was not the only person who discipled me. There's three other guys while I was young that discipled me as well and poured into me and gave me what had been given to them.

And I said, wow, I just took it for granted. I thought that's what people did. I thought that was normal. And then I get to my seminary time and I'm talking to people who have never been discipled at all, much less by three or four people. And I'm talking to people that don't understand, you know, what does I, you know, these are people, there's people at seminary that are coming there from completely un Christian homes.

No one else in their family is even a believer. And of course they haven't been discipled because they just came to Christ. They got on fire for him and they said, I'm going to school to learn how to be a pastor. And and so I realized, wow, I have been blessed tremendously from a young age with an advantage that a lot of people don't have.

And so. It made me realize this is one of the most important things that any of us can do is disciple people, mentor people, and be mentored by people so that we can make a greater difference, greater impact in the world for the kingdom of heaven. And it allows us even to to avoid a lot of mistakes that we could potentially fall into.

You know, one of the things that I appreciate so much about what my dad did for me is my dad. Before he got into ministry, did just about everything you could wrong with his life. I mean, he ran from the Lord before he became a Christian. He was an alcoholic when he was 14 years old. So many things. And what I appreciate is that he told me the stories and the consequences of when he ran from God and he didn't glorify them.

He didn't say, man, back in the good old days, we did X, Y, and Z. He said, Ty, I did this. And because I did this, this happened And this is the consequence of my action and how I have to live with it now. And he allowed me to avoid a lot of pitfalls. And mistakes that I could have made as a teenager or a young man that, you know, just simply because I heard him tell those stories and knew the consequences, I said, I'm not going to make that same mistake that I could have had every opportunity to make if I hadn't been discipled by him in the way that he did.

So, for me, discipleship is everything. It's the thing I'm the most passionate about out of the whole world is discipling people and helping them grow in the Lord.

Jason: That's great. Yeah. I didn't even think about some of that, but, but yeah, and I, you know, I kind of, I kind of relate to your dad in this story because, I've only been a Christian for about three years, you know, I joined the faith a little over three years ago when I spent, you know, I tell people that I spent my 40 years in the desert, the first 40 some years of my life just as you said, running from Christ and, and it's, it's a big deal when, when that flip, when that switch flips, you look back and you're just like, man, I just, I could have, I could have been here sooner, but, but you know, you just pick up and keep going from where you start.

Ty: Right. And I think, my dad, he's expressed that he wishes that he, and he grew up in a Christian home just to put the context there. And he totally rebelled against that and ran from it. And of course he tells you, he wishes that he would have came to the Lord sooner, became a pastor faster, surrendered to ministry earlier, but he also is uniquely equipped for the ministry that he is in now because he knows. What people are going through because he's been where they're at. So, you know, an alcoholic walks into the church. My dad doesn't have to pull out an AA handbook and say, well, what's going on in their life? No, he knows he lived it. And so he can minister to them in a unique way. And so for all of us, you know, I think there's a solid chance that we should have gone into ministry sooner than we did.

But the encouragement in that is that God is going to redeem and use those things that we see as failures and pitfalls in our life. That now he's going to use to help us minister to people who are in the same circumstances.

Jason: Absolutely. Absolutely. So is there anything unique in terms of discipleship with someone in a cowboy church? So just kind of tying that back to the cowboy church a little.

Ty: Yeah, there is a little bit of uniqueness, you know, discipleship is very much. So the way I'm talking about it based on respect, mutual respect, and it's not necessarily saying the person who is discipling someone is better than them or more mature in some way. Usually they are more mature spiritually have been walking with the Lord longer.

But it's really both parties coming together and saying, we're going to sharpen each other and we're going to work on growing in the Lord together. And usually 1 person is leading that. And so for Cowboys, especially if you're talking about that culture subset specifically. And respect is everything. And if you cannot earn their respect and you can't walk the walk and talk the talk, then you're going to lose their respect.

And it's going to be really hard to disciple someone in that context. So that would be probably the main difference from any other situation that you're trying to disciple people in. Now, I don't think that's completely unique. I know there's other culture subsets where respect is very important like that. And if you lose the respect, it's going to be hard for you to do ministry in that situation. But that's one of the differences that I do see.

Jason: Yeah. Respect is a big country thing to, you know, any cowboy, anybody who's country farmer, rancher, you know, respect is a thing. Yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. That was. That was a thing at one point.

Ty: That's right. Well, and that's what, how I was raised and that's how a lot of people are still raised is if you don't say yes, sir, no, sir you're going to get whooped for it.

Jason: Yeah. Right.

Ty: at the spanking offense right there. If I say, yeah, Whoa, hold on. Let's rethink that.

Jason: Absolutely. So are there any practical tools you find most helpful in the process of discipling people other than the Bible? Of course.

Ty: what? Obviously, yeah, we always start with the Bible. We always start with prayer. But as far as other things that help you progress in that, give you a starting point, one of the greatest resources I've ever found, and I'm, you know, I think John Tolson probably owes me royalties because everywhere I get, I'm singing, buy his book.

It's The Four Priorities by John Tolson . And it is by far the best discipleship resource I have ever put my hands on. And I use it every time that I disciple someone as a base point. I think it doesn't necessarily cover everything that I want to cover in a discipleship relationship. But it's darn close and it is so good. So that's the four priorities by John Tolson. It is well worth the read. And if you're discipling people, it'll give you a step by step guide on how to do that and to create people who are making disciples because that's one of Tolson's big things. And I bought into it. Heart and soul is if your disciples aren't making disciples. You're not making disciples. Discipleship is a multiplication factor. It's not an addition to the kingdom. It's multiplying the kingdom.

Jason: There you go. Yeah. I'll add the, I'll find the link and add it in the show notes. Make sure that everyone can get that book.

Ty: Yeah, it's, it's worth it. I promise you it's a good read.

Jason: So do you struggle to balance your own personal spiritual growth while also leading and guiding others?

Ty: Yeah, in complete honesty, I definitely do. One of the things that I do to combat that is I try to make sure that I'm always being mentored and poured into by someone that I respect who I believe is steps further in ministry than I am. And so right now that's my senior pastor. I meet with him on a regular basis and he pours into me and I pour into him and it's a, it's a discipleship esque relationship.

Where I'm saying, I don't have all the answers. You know, I've been doing this for nine years, but I do not have all the answers. And in fact that's one of the most beneficial things to me is I believe personally, you should always be being mentored by someone. And mentoring someone at the same time. So that's, that's the relationships that I try to keep in my life.

I'm trying to pour into someone and I'm trying to find someone to pour into me. And so the honest truth is there's times in my life where I get so busy with ministry and good things for the Lord that my own spiritual disciplines lack in ways that they should. And in those moments, I've also got people in my life that are willing and able to hold me accountable.

So there's several men that I am very close with that we talk on a regular basis and, and they know me well enough to know whenever I'm not doing what I should to maintain my relationship with the Lord and my health physically and spiritually, and they'll call me out on it and it's painful when they say, Ty, you know, What how's your how's your prayer life right now? And you know, like we have the commitment. We're not gonna lie We're not gonna sugarcoat and I have to kind of like put my head down and go It's not what it should be that much I can tell you and they say okay Why and then I have to say because I'm too busy and I'm not making time for it and they say okay What are you gonna do about it? You

Jason: right?

Ty: But that accountability relationship is so precious to me and it's painful, but it is so needed and so welcomed because when they call me out on all the things that I'm doing, it makes me a better man and helps me to balance those things.

Jason: Very well. Yeah, it's really important. And that's, that's 1 of the most important aspects of the community of church is, we come together to praise the Lord. We come together to celebrate. We come together, you know, to, to learn, but. We're also there to hold each other accountable and, and to, as you said, you know, disciple each other and, you know, do all of these things that are kind of peripheral to what people think you go to church for, and that, that just, it seems so important.

Ty: it is. It's vital. Community is actually, I call it a spiritual discipline. Community and worship, those two things, like, you have to have it as a person in general, but especially as a Christian because, let's face it, The tendency is not to drift towards God. That's not the tendency of humanity. The tendency is always to drift away from God. And we need that accountability. We need that encouragement, that community to help us stay on the right track.

Jason: Yeah, absolutely. We're, we're. Coming up on a bit of time I did want to kind of throw it out there cause I, I did have some questions about church leadership, but maybe just give me your 30,000 foot view of what advice you would have for somebody who's aspiring to become a church leader.

Ty: Absolutely. You know, for me, it boils down to the most important quality you can have if you aspire to be a church leader that you need to cultivate starting right now is integrity. If you are not a man or a woman of integrity, it's going to be really, really hard for you in church ministry, because you're going to find out that things are going to fall apart.

If you say you're going to do something, you need to do it. If you have some secret sin in your life that you're hiding. I promise you it's going to come and bite you in the butt at some point in ministry. And so integrity, integrity, integrity, integrity is, is only, is really, in my opinion, one of the only important qualities of a minister because God can create the rest.

But if you're not a person of integrity, then that's, that's not something that God can change in your heart. That's something you have to desire. And of course, God, when you desire that God helps you and creates that inside of you. But if you don't desire to be a person of integrity, God can't force that on you, right?

I didn't desire to be a speaker. I didn't desire to be a leader, but God has gifted me in those areas. After I surrendered to ministry, I'm not naturally any of the things that I do in my job. If you would have asked me if I was going to be doing those things at 15, I would have said absolutely not. I am not qualified in any shape form or fashion and I'm not and the reality is God has Changed my life, and he's done those things in my life, but integrity is at the root of all that.

And there's been times when I've been a person who didn't have good integrity. So that's part of why it's so important to me.

Jason: Yeah, you know Moses struggled with public speaking,

Ty: role model, role model.

Jason: right? So before we wrap this up, are there any other parting words or words of wisdom you want to share with the listeners?

Ty: Sure. You know, one thing that I always love to encourage people on is spiritual disciplines. And this is, you know, kind of off the wall of anything we've been talking about. But spiritual discipline is something that's always on my heart. Because the level to which you practice spiritual disciplines is the level to which God will use you to change his kingdom.

And so the more disciplined you are, the more opportunity that you're going to get. And of course we don't earn our salvation, but everything that happens after that moment. Is up to how, how much you're willing to sacrifice and give to the kingdom. And I think if you're willing to sacrifice and give a lot to the kingdom, you're going to see amazing things happen in your ministry and in your life.

Jason: I think that's great. That's good words.

That's where we'll end it today. Please visit venture tabernacle podcast. As I said, I've been listening to it. It's bite sized elegant scripture. You'll love it. Just do it again. You can find it at https://venturetabernacle.com. Go to the show notes, click the link, all the links, click all the links.

You'll love them. Ty, so much for having this amazing conversation with me and sharing your wisdom and your experience.

Ty: Absolutely. It was a pleasure to be on the podcast, Jason, and let's stay in touch.

Jason: Absolutely. So until next time, be sure to read your Bibles, remember to love each other and may the Lord bless you and keep you. God bless everyone.